A Conversation with Dr. Ellen Ott Marshall

The conversation below has been edited for grammar, clarity, and space.

Brian Green: Professor Marshall, thank you for speaking with me today about your work in conflict transformation. You know, when I think of “conflict transformation,” It's kind of like the word “ombudsperson”: it's a word that or phrase that maybe people aren't very familiar with. I want to talk to you about the “transformation” piece of that, but first I would like to ask how you define conflict, and how that relates to conflict transformation.

Dr. Ellen Marshall: So, I just go back to the root of the word. In terms of etymology, conflict means “to strike together.” We have lots of different things that strike together in lots of different ways.

Some of that striking together is indeed violent and destructive, so before we talk about the opportunities within conflict, it's really important to pause and just note that there are obviously costs and dangers associated with dangerous and violent conflict. To make the pivot to seeing conflict as both natural and necessary and an opportunity for change, it's important to distinguish it from violence.

What I'm really thinking about is Nonviolent Conflict, and that means the striking together of people in interpersonal contexts. It can also be the striking together of ideas, such as in teaching and learning. We have the striking together between what “I thought I knew” and new data that's emerging. In all of these examples of nonviolent conflict, you can see how conflict is a natural element of human beings who are both changing and in relationships—and therefore striking together.

Conflict is a natural dimension of growth through teaching and learning or changes in relationships.

The real shift in conflict transformation is to try to see conflict itself as that thing that's natural, necessary, and also an opportunity for constructive change. The whole name of the game in conflict transformation is to try to engage conflict constructively for the purposes of constructive change. That can be in a person's life, in an interpersonal relationship, or in a community.

Brian Green: That's really interesting that you described conflict in terms of striking together, because we often think of conflict is something that can push us apart. Right now, as you know, we're all living with the literal separation of “social distancing.” Does the fact that we're more physically isolated right now affect how we experience conflict?

Dr. Marshall: I think that it exacerbates both the challenges and the possibilities within our different conflict styles. We all have a kind of default mode around conflict, and starting place for conflict transformation is often to do some self-assessment to understand what our own default mode is, how we tend to respond to conflict. Then, you do some work to figure out what conflict style might be most constructive given a certain kind of conflict. Through practice and skill building, we find that we can indeed adopt certain styles that are not our natural mode.

I've been thinking that with social distancing, the challenges of different conflict styles are exacerbated differently according to those styles.  So for example, if you tend to be someone who is pretty aggressive and assertive in your conflict style, social distancing allows you to sort of solve a problem with a kind of unilateral assault--You can just declare and assert, what you want to do. If you don’t have to have an effort of mutual dialogue, you can just be a shark and send forth the unilateral missive.

On the other extreme, if you're avoidant of conflict, then you have all kinds of excuses just not to deal with those conflicts that are outside of our house. (We have not quite as much freedom to avoid the conflicts that are inside our house!) If you’re a conflict avoidant person, you can shelve the conflict, but also reinforce the narrative about the conflict that you have created. We avoidant types can just do our muttering and reinforcing of a narrative without having to actually confront the person with whom we’re in conflict.

I think social distancing can exacerbate the bad habits that are part of these conflict styles. But on the other hand, there are some things social distancing can help us do. Like the person who is conflict avoidant often needs time to mull over a situation and figure out sort of what they really need and how to ask for that. We now have got that time and space to do that. This is a great situation for “mullers”—people who like to take time with these things. Similarly, for assertive types, being distant can force the person to take a little breath and pause before they send out that unilateral missive—time to figure out if there isn’t an alternative and creative way to be collaborative in those moments. These challenges and opportunities are nuanced depending on what your conflict style may be.

Brian Green: Are there other things that we can kind of that we can do to maybe guard against our worst tendencies or habits?

Dr. Marshall: I think a big one is to utilize this time and the space we’ve got to interrupt the narratives that we create about others and conflict. That’s one of the really important elements in mediation or a circle process where you bring together different parties in the dispute—you are creating a space where people can speak and hear one another in a new way. A lot of that work relies on being prompted and helped to listen really well so that your perception and your narrative about a conflict gets interrupted, and you can see something in another way.

We can also discipline ourselves to not just keep retelling the narrative. For example, a really concrete thing that is a resource at Emory is to tap into the cognitive based compassion training resources (CBTR). Another is that every Wednesday at 5:00 pm, a meditation group led by Bobbie Patterson meets virtually.

So much of what you're doing is practicing compassion towards yourself, and also cultivating that compassion towards someone else who might infuriate you or irritate you or whatever. That's work that you need time and quiet to do—and so we can do that now.

Brian Green: That leads me to my next question: what kind of opportunities do you see for Emory’s community as a whole as we’re struggling to deal with major changes related to this pandemic?

Dr. Marshall: Well, one of the real issues our whole society has experienced has been an erosion of trust. Erosion in trust in our institutions can be fatal—and it is incredibly quick; it doesn’t take much to diminish trust, and it takes a huge amount of time and effort to rebuild it.

And so I'm thinking that that is one opportunity that that might arise has to do with my sense that our institution as a whole has responded really well to this crisis. Many faculty are feeling supported in the shift to online teaching; there has been a lot of fantastic staff support, and also support for the students that I’m hearing from, as they’ve moved into this new teaching format. [Students] didn’t ask for this situation, but they’re finding faculty to be generous and supportive of them. Things like the institutional policies around extensions, or Laney Graduate School thinking carefully about whether to do satisfactory/unsatisfactory grading given students’ long term hopes for further graduate programs or jobs—all of that is being done with a lot of care.

And so, my hope is that this kind of leadership that is both communicating really well and leading thoughtful policies might build some trust.

Brian Green: That’s really interesting. I know that a lot of institutions, including Emory but also our governments and social institutions are struggling with a lack of trust—some of which has to do with our online presence, which can tend to push us into isolated groups of like-minded people, leading to polarization and the kind of erosion you describe. It’s a really beautiful idea that in forcing all of us to collectively come together in an online community, that has offered us the potential to actually rebuild trust. I really like that idea.

Dr. Marshall: I just hope that’s true! I’ve just been encouraged so much in my own little sphere by faculty, staff, administration, and students’ behavior and description of their experiences. I think that so much of what’s happened is just a complete shakeup of the way we do things, and so we’re all having to do things differently—which breaks us out of the patterns that have been problematic.

Brian Green: and that maybe helps us see ourselves and our relationships with our institutions with new eyes.

My last question is more personal: for you, as you have continued to do your work, your teaching and research, what have you learned about yourself as you have adjusted to this new routine? Have you learned anything about yourself that you didn’t know before?

Dr. Marshall: This may be a sort of contradictory lesson, but I think I am confirming that I am an introvert by nature—so I’m fairly happy! A lot of the energy that I have to put toward interacting with the world outside of my house, I’ve been able to put that energy into other places. And that feels good.

The one thing that's that I've been doing more of now that I didn't do before is intentionally connecting with some little groups at Emory like the “Sit Down and Write” group at the Center for Faculty Development and Excellence. I can also take a yoga class online a couple of times a week, and so I’m doing that. Those are things I just wouldn’t allow myself to take time to do, and now, we have time and a little bit more freedom around how to use it. Those things have been really good, and the accountability of it, I think, is part of why I’m feeling okay. My colleague at Candler, Jennifer Ayres, starts a sit down and write Facebook group at 7:00 every morning, so I get her little not at about ten till seven that says “early birds writing—who’s writing at 7:00?” It’s been really good to get me at my desk at 7:00, so I hope I can keep that up.

Brian Green: Thank you so much for talking to us and for doing the work that you do. I think it is very fortunate that, as we’re going through all of this right now, to have so many people who are thinking very intentionally about conflict transformation and how we can turn this into an opportunity, and your work on that is invaluable. So thank you very much.

Dr. Marshall: Thanks, Brian.